I think they are both right -- I think that we have incorporated a bit of western mythology into the images of Hell and our view is somewhat distorted.
On the other hand, I don't think you can read the words of Jesus, believe that they are inerrant, and still believe that Hell is not a very very bad place.
Did you see that Piper and Wright are going to share a stage soon? http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/02/03/ets-2010-piper-wright-and-thielman/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+between2worlds+%28Between+Two+Worlds%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
i think view number two is really out there. jesus compared hell (gehenna) to sodom and gamorrah. god didnt leave sodom and gamorrah to their humanness he destroyed them. he did not however torture them for eternity and if the lake of fire is said to be the ;'second death" then i would expect death would mean an end. maybe after a long time of suffering but at some time i would believe it woudl come to an end jesus said god could destroy the body and soul in hell (gehenna). -christian
I think the concept of eternal damnation is so awful that it's only natural to attempt to swallow anything more pallatable. In looking at what scripture says about hell, I have to conclude that it is a literal place, eternal and horrible. A place that should be avoided at all cost. I also think there's a danger when our ONLY motivation in mission/evangilism is to keep people out of hell. If we're not careful we get the attitude that says, "There's really no hope for this world, this life, only eternity matters." Jesus told us to pray "...Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven." It seems to me that we are to bring down the coming Kingdom as we live out our lives, To show and tell the world a better way. So, I think it's very important to love people into the Kingdom by the way we live and because we love, we both show AND tell people how to avoid a place called hell.
Jesus did NOT speak about hell without actually using the word.
Twelve times hell is translated from the Greek word Gehenna which stands for the Hebrew word "GeHinnom."
Ten times "hell" is translated from the Greek word hades, which means "unseen" and refers to the state of the dead. It also represents the Greek god Hades and the hell of the Greek pagan religion.
One time "hell" is translated from the Greek word tartarus, which means "abyss," and is supposedly the lowest part of the Greek hades.
And one time hades is translated "grave."
The Greek word Gehenna is incorrectly translated hell in the New Testament, and correctly translated "the valley of Hinnom" in the Old Testament.
Gehenna, spelled GeHinnom or GayHinnom according to Hebrew, is a real historical and geographical location just southwest off of Jerusalem's walls below the Essene and Dung Gates.
Neh. 11:30 - "...And they dwelt from Beersheba unto the valley of Hinnom - Heb: 'gay Hinnom' - gay in Hebrew means valley, so 'gay Hinnom" is a Geographical location, not a "state or abode of the dead."
Josh. 15:8 - "And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom - Heb: 'gay ben Hinnom' - valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem. Again, a geographical location.
Josh. 18:16 - "And the border came down to the end of the mountain that lies before the valley of the son of Hinnom..."
II Kings 23:10 - "And he defiled Topheth which is in the valley of the children [son] of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire of Molech
II Chron. 28:3 - "Moreover he [wicked King Ahaz] burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire..."
II Chron. 33:6 - "And he [wicked King Manasseh] caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom..." Manasseh did not "cause his children to pass through the fire in HELL."
Jer. 7:31 - "And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire..."
Jer. 7:32 - "Therefore, behold, the days come says the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter..."
Jer. 19:6 - "And go forth unto the valley of the son of Hinnom ...."
Jer. 19:6 - "Therefore, behold, the days come, says the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter."
Jer. 32:35 - "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech..." They did not "...build the high places of Baal in HELL."
The "GeHinnom" of the Old Testament is not hell, and is not translated hell, so why did Gehenna of the New Testament get translated as hell?
Gehenna today is a park with green lawns and trees. No one is living in "evil, misery, discord, destruction...torment, and anguish" in this city park today.
Jesus does teach on Gehenna, but it is not an eternal hell of demons and torment.
I do not believe that satan and his demons represented in any of those verses is residing over the souls of the wicked dead, punishing them for all eternity.
4 comments:
I think they are both right -- I think that we have incorporated a bit of western mythology into the images of Hell and our view is somewhat distorted.
On the other hand, I don't think you can read the words of Jesus, believe that they are inerrant, and still believe that Hell is not a very very bad place.
Did you see that Piper and Wright are going to share a stage soon? http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2010/02/03/ets-2010-piper-wright-and-thielman/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+between2worlds+%28Between+Two+Worlds%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
i think view number two is really out there. jesus compared hell (gehenna) to sodom and gamorrah. god didnt leave sodom and gamorrah to their humanness he destroyed them. he did not however torture them for eternity and if the lake of fire is said to be the ;'second death" then i would expect death would mean an end. maybe after a long time of suffering but at some time i would believe it woudl come to an end jesus said god could destroy the body and soul in hell (gehenna).
-christian
I think the concept of eternal damnation is so awful that it's only natural to attempt to swallow anything more pallatable.
In looking at what scripture says about hell, I have to conclude that it is a literal place, eternal and horrible. A place that should be avoided at all cost.
I also think there's a danger when our ONLY motivation in mission/evangilism is to keep people out of hell. If we're not careful we get the attitude that says, "There's really no hope for this world, this life, only eternity matters."
Jesus told us to pray "...Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven." It seems to me that we are to bring down the coming Kingdom as we live out our lives, To show and tell the world a better way. So, I think it's very important to love people into the Kingdom by the way we live and because we love, we both show AND tell people how to avoid a place called hell.
In the KJV you can find the word "hell" 23 times.
Jesus did NOT speak about hell without actually using the word.
Twelve times hell is translated from the Greek word Gehenna which stands for the Hebrew word "GeHinnom."
Ten times "hell" is translated from the Greek word hades, which means "unseen" and refers to the state of the dead. It also represents the Greek god Hades and the hell of the Greek pagan religion.
One time "hell" is translated from the Greek word tartarus, which means "abyss," and is supposedly the lowest part of the Greek hades.
And one time hades is translated "grave."
The Greek word Gehenna is incorrectly translated hell in the New Testament, and correctly translated "the valley of Hinnom" in the Old Testament.
Gehenna, spelled GeHinnom or GayHinnom according to Hebrew, is a real historical and geographical location just southwest off of Jerusalem's walls below the Essene and Dung Gates.
Neh. 11:30 - "...And they dwelt from Beersheba unto the valley of Hinnom - Heb: 'gay Hinnom' - gay in Hebrew means valley, so 'gay Hinnom" is a Geographical location, not a "state or abode of the dead."
Josh. 15:8 - "And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom - Heb: 'gay ben Hinnom' - valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem. Again, a geographical location.
Josh. 18:16 - "And the border came down to the end of the mountain that lies before the valley of the son of Hinnom..."
II Kings 23:10 - "And he defiled Topheth which is in the valley of the children [son] of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire of Molech
II Chron. 28:3 - "Moreover he [wicked King Ahaz] burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire..."
II Chron. 33:6 - "And he [wicked King Manasseh] caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom..." Manasseh did not "cause his children to pass through the fire in HELL."
Jer. 7:31 - "And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire..."
Jer. 7:32 - "Therefore, behold, the days come says the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter..."
Jer. 19:6 - "And go forth unto the valley of the son of Hinnom ...."
Jer. 19:6 - "Therefore, behold, the days come, says the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter."
Jer. 32:35 - "And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech..." They did not "...build the high places of Baal in HELL."
The "GeHinnom" of the Old Testament is not hell, and is not translated hell, so why did Gehenna of the New Testament get translated as hell?
Gehenna today is a park with green lawns and trees. No one is living in "evil, misery, discord, destruction...torment, and anguish" in this city park today.
Jesus does teach on Gehenna, but it is not an eternal hell of demons and torment.
I do not believe that satan and his demons represented in any of those verses is residing over the souls of the wicked dead, punishing them for all eternity.
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