The blog of Eric Blauer...officially known as Frederick Christian Blauer IV
Friday, January 16, 2009
Yep...me too.
6 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Yeah, me three...
Rev 3:10 - Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.
Matthew 24:39 - And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 - Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Luke 21:36 - Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Well, I defiantly have thoughts...but nothing gets more tangled than comment posts on eschatology.
I think there is a real danger of constructing end-times frameworks out of various verses from here and there...it can become a scaffolding to build various apocalyptic positions, that seems shaky to me.
In fact many camps end up with opposite interpretations from the same use of scripture bits and pieces to build their scaffolding.
One camp would say those above verses speak of the invasion of Rome and the destruction of Jerusalem....others would say they support a "rapture" premillennial position.
Some would point out that these verses help strengthen the idea of a coming of the Lord that contains one resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous...not a partial return of Jesus for some and then a real return for all...etc.
I think one has to hold eschatology in the hands of clear soteriology and Christology to interpret verses like: "...accounted worthy to escape..." -Lk 21:36
If you dont, you end up proclaiming a gospel that looks more like Judaism than Christianity. Which by the way, is exactly what I think a lot of premillennialists end up looking, acting and believing like in my opinion.
The gospel through the lenses of futuristic interpretations can seriously end up including theological ideas that contradict clear biblical teaching about the finished work of Jesus.
Stuff like: rebuilt temples, the return of a sacrificial system, the reinstitution of a levitical priesthood, dual paths of salvation, the re-severing and return to cultural distinctions of Jew and Gentile, the restoration of natural Israel etc...rebuild the very stuff that the gospel tore down (Galatians 2:18)
I always find myself uneasy about a dislocated eschatology that never seems to fit within the whole of the gospel. It becomes a system that never quite jives with the other parts of the salvation diamond in my experience. It's often based on unclear passages, apocalyptic language and visions.
Such views use disjointed passages or single verses and always seem to turn the triumph of Jesus, the cross and the resurrection into some goofy looking b-movie; instead of the magnificent unfolding dawn of the Kingdom of God and victorious risen Christ that is portrayed in the New Testament.
One glorifies humanity, evil, fallenness, the devil and implies a subtle to dramatic mental outlook that presupposes the failure of the purposes of God...in my experience and opinion.
The mystery of Revelations and especiall chapter 12 sums up my desire to embrace a wider view of what we call the end times. In that chapter I see themes that have crossed thousands of years of time, parts that seem to be out of a linear timeline, concepts, ideas, players that have stood on the stage of the purposes of God in various ways and outcomes. You see beasts, dragons, men, angels, Jesus, nations, judgments...histories parade past you in a kaleidoscope way that reflects more of a painting of history than a map to to a certain destination.
Maybe thats my strong poet and artist nature...but in the end of things...I think it makes more sense in light of the ages of time we have lived through.
While I agree in part, and particularly on the idea that it gets very messy to openly begin dialogue regarding these doctrines, I think my question was more directly about the passages in Matthew.
What do you believe Christ was talking about in Matt 24-25? There is some language in these two chapters which I find intriguing for more than just prophetic speculation.
These are clear statements within the new testament gospels, which Christ felt it important to discuss.
So what do these chapters really mean???
And no, I am really not trying to provoke a "Rapture" discussion.
I know there is much to unpack within these chapters, but the context remains, and as you know is and has been controversial to say the least.
With that, I am simply curious how you may interpret...?....?
I believe the olivet discourse is a partial prophesy about the Roman invasion and destruction of Jerusalem and then a prophetic look into the future return of Christ. There is a clear break in the teaching where it goes from temporal to future in my opinion.
Or libraries. I do so hope there will be libraries there.
And, if it is His desire to do so, I hope that God will shield my eyes from His own brilliant glory long enough for me to be able to pay attention to someone or something else... I would so love to go back in time to witness certain events in history. Or to see the other versions of my life if certain things had not happened as they did.
1 Cor. 2:9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him."
Human minds have conceived many wonders... Heaven must be mind-blowing!
6 comments:
Yeah, me three...
Rev 3:10 - Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.
Matthew 24:39 - And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 - Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Luke 21:36 - Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Thoughts on the verses above?
Well, I defiantly have thoughts...but nothing gets more tangled than comment posts on eschatology.
I think there is a real danger of constructing end-times frameworks out of various verses from here and there...it can become a scaffolding to build various apocalyptic positions, that seems shaky to me.
In fact many camps end up with opposite interpretations from the same use of scripture bits and pieces to build their scaffolding.
One camp would say those above verses speak of the invasion of Rome and the destruction of Jerusalem....others would say they support a "rapture" premillennial position.
Some would point out that these verses help strengthen the idea of a coming of the Lord that contains one resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous...not a partial return of Jesus for some and then a real return for all...etc.
I think one has to hold eschatology in the hands of clear soteriology and Christology to interpret verses like: "...accounted worthy to escape..." -Lk 21:36
If you dont, you end up proclaiming a gospel that looks more like Judaism than Christianity. Which by the way, is exactly what I think a lot of premillennialists end up looking, acting and believing like in my opinion.
The gospel through the lenses of futuristic interpretations can seriously end up including theological ideas that contradict clear biblical teaching about the finished work of Jesus.
Stuff like: rebuilt temples, the return of a sacrificial system, the reinstitution of a levitical priesthood, dual paths of salvation, the re-severing and return to cultural distinctions of Jew and Gentile, the restoration of natural Israel etc...rebuild the very stuff that the gospel tore down (Galatians 2:18)
I always find myself uneasy about a dislocated eschatology that never seems to fit within the whole of the gospel. It becomes a system that never quite jives with the other parts of the salvation diamond in my experience. It's often based on unclear passages, apocalyptic language and visions.
Such views use disjointed passages or single verses and always seem to turn the triumph of Jesus, the cross and the resurrection into some goofy looking b-movie; instead of the magnificent unfolding dawn of the Kingdom of God and victorious risen Christ that is portrayed in the New Testament.
One glorifies humanity, evil, fallenness, the devil and implies a subtle to dramatic mental outlook that presupposes the failure of the purposes of God...in my experience and opinion.
The mystery of Revelations and especiall chapter 12 sums up my desire to embrace a wider view of what we call the end times. In that chapter I see themes that have crossed thousands of years of time, parts that seem to be out of a linear timeline, concepts, ideas, players that have stood on the stage of the purposes of God in various ways and outcomes. You see beasts, dragons, men, angels, Jesus, nations, judgments...histories parade past you in a kaleidoscope way that reflects more of a painting of history than a map to to a certain destination.
Maybe thats my strong poet and artist nature...but in the end of things...I think it makes more sense in light of the ages of time we have lived through.
While I agree in part, and particularly on the idea that it gets very messy to openly begin dialogue regarding these doctrines, I think my question was more directly about the passages in Matthew.
What do you believe Christ was talking about in Matt 24-25? There is some language in these two chapters which I find intriguing for more than just prophetic speculation.
These are clear statements within the new testament gospels, which Christ felt it important to discuss.
So what do these chapters really mean???
And no, I am really not trying to provoke a "Rapture" discussion.
I know there is much to unpack within these chapters, but the context remains, and as you know is and has been controversial to say the least.
With that, I am simply curious how you may interpret...?....?
I believe the olivet discourse is a partial prophesy about the Roman invasion and destruction of Jerusalem and then a prophetic look into the future return of Christ. There is a clear break in the teaching where it goes from temporal to future in my opinion.
I wonder if there will be ice cream in Heaven.
Or libraries. I do so hope there will be libraries there.
And, if it is His desire to do so, I hope that God will shield my eyes from His own brilliant glory long enough for me to be able to pay attention to someone or something else... I would so love to go back in time to witness certain events in history. Or to see the other versions of my life if certain things had not happened as they did.
1 Cor. 2:9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him."
Human minds have conceived many wonders... Heaven must be mind-blowing!
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