Monday, September 21, 2009

Eternal Judgement....

For further reading i’ve linked to two small essays that speak about some of the issues brought up in this last Sunday's message at
Jacob's Well, regarding Eternal Judgement:

General Rules for Mental Improvement
An essay that helps us develop the mind of a student and how to logically and reasonably look at issues of controversy.

Gehenna
A short paper that looks at the word Jesus used in his teaching on “Hell”.

Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
-Jude 1:3

This week we taught on the Eternal Judgment (crf: Hebrews 6:12) based on these passages in Jude:

-1:4: "this condemnation"
-1:5: "subsequently destroyed" 
-1:6: "kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the Judgement day"
-1:7: "undergoing the punishment of eternal fire"
-1:11 “perished”
-1:13: "black darkness has been reserved forever"
-1:15: "to execute judgment upon all"
-1:23; "save other, snatching them out of the fire"

As a church, we teach from the Bible (primarily expository); and discipline ourselves to work at building our understanding of biblical truth from the whole counsel of God’s word. That means we stick to the passage and try not to bring arguments or controversies from outside the passage into the passage. We want the scripture to speak for itself.

The issue of Hell is a very important subject. Whenever you are dealing with the subject of people’s eternal destinations; you better handle it with fear and trembling. In this spirit I have chosen to maintain the solid ground on the issue that has been historically professed in the creeds, primarily the Apostle’s Creed and the Nicene Creed.

These documents, though not inspired, do historically represent the Christian churches agreement on what is considered of first importance regarding doctrine. In affirming the creeds, we stand on solid scriptural ground and yet, allow room for differences on secondary matters.

We aim at interpreting the unclear passages of scripture by the clear passages in matters of speculation.

These creeds affirm a “Resurrection, a Day of Judgement and Immortality or Eternal Life” and we feel this is a good middle ground to maintain. To go too far beyond these words leads one to eschatological speculation and the possibility of mishandling the character and purposes of God.

This theological navigational process has been succinctly summed up by two famous Christian theologians:

"In Essentials, unity.
In non-essentials, liberty.
In all things, love"        
-Augustine (354-430 AD)

“The faith preached by the Apostles, attested by the Martyrs,
embodied in the Creeds,
expounded by the Fathers.”
-C.S. Lewis

The Apostles creed: Appears to have been the general creed of the Christian Church, in a form very similar to that which it now bears, from the close of the second century. At that time and afterwards it served not only as a test of Christian doctrine, but was also used by catechists in training and instructing candidates for admission to the Church. The original germ of it is to be sought for in the baptismal confession made by converts in the reception of that rite. The primitive confession may have contained no more than “I believe that Jesus is the Son of God,” but we have evidence within the New Testament itself that it soon became enlarged. Paul speaks of the “form of teaching” delivered to converts (Romans 6:17), and reminds Timothy of “the good (beautiful) confession” he had made in sight of many witnesses (1 Timothy 6:12).

The Apostles Creed
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,

the Maker of heaven and earth,

and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
 born of the virgin Mary,
    
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    
was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
    
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
    
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
    
the holy catholic church;
    
the communion of saints;
    
the forgiveness of sins;
    
the resurrection of the body;
    
and the life everlasting.
Amen.

11 comments:

dreamchaser77 said...

It is interesting that you preached on this this week, since I had a rather in-depth discussion on this very topic last week. You pretty much reiterated most of what I knew, but I'm curious (since it is mentioned in the Apostle's Creed) how do we know that Jesus went to hell after He died? There isn't any mention of it in the Bible (that I know of) and I have heard this theory many times and it has always bugged me, because I can find no Biblical evidence that backs this statement up. From what I understand, this reference came from Dante's Inferno (much of what the Catholic church has based its view of Heaven and Hell on). Perhaps you can direct me to the right place.

Unknown said...

http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-go-to-hell.html

these guys answer your questions fairly well.

dreamchaser77 said...

TY, that was very helpful :)

joey said...

pastor eric, i read the essays listed before commenting...
i first want to say that was a wonderful sermon on sunday about the subject...
whatever hell or gehenna is, whether it is eternal fire, or just ceasing to exist, or whatever, it is not God's best..not what He wants for His children..He desires that all should come to a knowledge of Him, and none should perish..whatever perish might mean.. ;)
another thing i had never really thought about before is those "outside the gates of the city" in Rev. 22..
a thought that came to me after your sermon on sunday is those outside the gates but not in eternal punishment are those who have accepted Christ, but still lived immoral lives...those who made it into Heaven, but as one escaping a fire...( I Cor 3:15 )
but of course that's just speculation.... :D
i for one, want to be inside the gates!

Matt said...

I think the eternal fire burns you up and it's final. that's it, you're a goner. you weren't worth a s#!t here and so you won't be needed after. bye bye. But here's the rub with Christians, we don't decide who, let alone how long, Jesus does that job. Good thing he's a lot more loving than us.

dreamchaser77 said...

Wow! That seems awfully harsh to say that someone is worthless. I don't believe that. I believe that God doesn't have time to make worthless people.

However, I think that I would rather believe that someone would be burned up into nonexistence than to have to suffer eternal punishment without any kind of allowance to come to God. A thought that just occured to me is that Jesus says that if a child asks his father for a crust of bread, will the father instead give him a snake? If we as unforgiving, fallen humans can have a justice system where a murderer or rapist can get off on parole after a period of time, then perhaps God also has a "parole" system. IKD, just a thought. But it does seem awfully harsh, IMO, to say that someone is punished eternally in a lake of burning fire, or darkness, or whatever other monstrosities we can think up, without any kind of relief whatsoever.

joey said...

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels....

will satan and his angels have eternal punishment or cease to exist? it sounds here like the goats get the same... just wondering....

Matt said...

There might be good potential in everyone but that doesn't mean they use it. One might be able to reconcile, but whether or not it's pursued...
Isn't ceasing to exist eternal? Meaning it happens once and forever.
I'm split down the middle, I believe in justice and I believe in mercy. But I leave it up to God.

dreamchaser77 said...

One thought that occured to me. A diamond, buried and uncut, is still a diamond. It takes a master craftsman to skillfully cut away the rock and imperfections. Yet, an uncut diamond is no less brilliant or valuable than the diamond that sits upon a lady's finger on her wedding day. But the key is that the diamond has to be found first. Perhaps we are the miners, and God is the diamond cutter.

Christian Blauer said...

I believe eternal punishment means youre destoyed, i.e. "second death". But there are scriptures about the fire never burning out, or the worm, as it is compared to gehena, a garbage dump. Read Isaiah 66:22

Eternal fire, burning up the bodies of those God destroyed. I think its eternal, but the people arn't still alive,kind of like god makes a waste dump of his enemies.This might be why it is compared to Gehenna.

Its all a scary subject, but God makes it clear hat we both fear and love him, the phrase "fear the Lord", a reverent holy fear. Yes Jesus may be our boyriend, our homeboy, the big man upstairs, but when we speak about hell, we realize he is lord.

FCB said...

I just have to chime in on this subject because of its eternal importance; vivid description of God, and its impact on an unbelieving world. I think the subject is covered very well in Gundry Crockett's book titled "Four Views of Hell."
This book and others like it are 'must reads' for any Christian. Such an important subject that if we haven't studied it thoroughly; we should be ashamed. As for me I like to stick to the clear scriptures that Christ and the apostles taught; eg. - Phil. 3:19
"whose end is destruction", Matt. 10:28 - "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."; 1Thess. 5:3 -"While they are saying,"peace and safety!" then destruction will come..." and of course John 3:16 clearly states the fate of the unbeliever. He shall perish. These and countless others bring me to the conclusion that the only clear teaching about man's eternal state after judgment is final destruction, the sentence of which is eternal and not to be overturned by mercy. I have to admit there is even still some scriptures that extend hope even past that, but in my study it seems weak. When I carefully studied the scriptures that are often used as proof texts for eternal torture I find them inconclusive and often hyperbole. The scripture Christian referred to -Isa. 66:22 which Jesus quoted is often used as a proof text of eternal torture but it is clearly not, but rather a strong warning that destruction will come to the wicked. The fact that caused me to lean in favor of destruction was when I realized the apostles never once warned against eternal torture; and surely if this was going to be the fate of the mass of humanity they would have sounded the alarm and preached it hot, clear, and unceasingly; but they did not. In the same way the Old Testament never warns of eternal torture, and God would not leave us to such a fate without clear, repeated, warnings in the same way he way he warns us to care for the orphans and widows, themes which are clear from the beginning to the end. I'll end this brief opinion by encouraging all Christians to read up and study out this all important doctrine.
Fred