Friday, January 15, 2010

Haiti, the devil, Freemasons and George Washington...

Supposedly Haiti made a pact with the devil...which is probably bunk:

So let me get this straight...God levels shanty towns, out of vengeance against the sons and daughter of slaves; who were trying to free themselves from the ongoing white man's European slave trade oppression.

But we are the most prosperous nation on the face of the planet...even though our founding was awash in Freemason loving activity...and our founding fathers, ummm like George Washington were involved in pagan-like rituals.

Not to mention our slave issue...and our First Nation displacement and slaughter.


Josh R said...

I am actually pretty upset about the Christian response to Robertson.

Robertson was stupid to say what he said, but I think the gossip is distorting his words and message into something much more sinister than it was.

His point was not "They had it coming and they deserve what they got" His point was "This is a very dark place and this is a long suffering people, and we have an opportunity to be a light in a dark place"

If you listen to most of the Christian response they are implying a false message and a false motive to Robertson's words. That is Gossip - it is deceptive, and it is wrong.

Yes, he chose a bad time and way of expressing his point, but the gossip is evil, while Pat Robertson was stupid.

He didn't make up the story - It has been around a very long time.. It is probably about as true a George Washington and the cherry tree.

Unknown said...

I hear you...the slamming of Pat is gettign out of hand in some circles...but most if it is because comments like this are not new for Pat:,28804,1953778_1953776,00.html

A lot of followers of Jesus are sick of getting lumped into the mix with this version of Christianity and the visceral hate that it inspires:

When Rush says that we don't need to give to Haiti...we already do, it's called the income tax...and Pat says stuff like makes a lot of Christians want to hide or change the name of thier faith.

Can we dissociate somehow?

It's really brewing up to be a real problem for fact, like all faith reactionary movements in the past...folks vote more with their feet than thier mouths.

They just leave the church...and you know what...its happening in droves.

Besides the callousness and unlike Jesus'ness of it all...I find this stuff serious...especially as a preacher and a reacher.

Josh R said...

I think the key is to think rightly about the gift of life.

Most people think of life as an entitlement and death as a injustice. But in truth nobody earned their first or their next breath - everything is a gift. It is not evil that we die, it is grace that we live. This totally turned my world upside down:

The problem with Pat is that he tends to express the wrath side more than he Grace side, and he tends to talk about 'them' and not the 'us'.

The way that we disassociate is that we live selflessly and allow God's grace to flow through us, not to accumulate in us. Rather than trying to instill the fear of God in others, we live with in a way that shows the fear of God in us. We behave in a way that demonstrates our Awe and our thankfulness.

If we overreact and go to the point where we are distorting Robertson's words in order to make him easier to defeat, we are not standing for the truth, we are just standing for a different, albeit more palatable lie.

Unknown said...

Josh...Im really struggling how that video message is something that you think this woman: would need to hear.

I get the philosophical and theological positions of the Calvinists, best exemplified in contemplating the wonder of why God does...

"...not kill me in my sleep?" As he said in the video.

I'm not convinced that the argument addresses the sincere struggles, hurting and good natured folk have about the question. Maybe that response helps you or someone doesn't for me.

When I listend, it seemed very "condescending" and the image of God he presented...isn't the God I imagine I would need as I was stuck in the rubble of a building that had collapsed and killed my kids.

I appreciate you sharing your's a tough issue indeed.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I think Missionaries, Television stations and even Pastor's need stories to raise financial support or to legitimize thier efforts to the masses. Unfortunately, the "darker" the situation is painted, the more urgency, money and coverage it gets. Whatever happened to quietly doing the Lord's work and trusting him to provide...without exagerating the need or danger?
I wonder if along the way this country's "story" was expounded on to get sympathy and support, with made up or hazy "facts" to tell the believers at home. What a shame....

Unknown said...

Speaking of "hazy"...add your's adds a level of authentic and accountability to the act of conversation.

Josh R said...

I agree that the Bauchum clip is not the best pastoral counsel for somebody who is going though pain right now. It is more of a vaccine to bitterness against God. An understanding of those concepts encourages people to live in Philipians 4. To be content and thankful in all things.

Frankly, I think the reason that Fallwell and Robertson tend to spout off that way is that they externalize the tragedy to be something that happened to some people, rather than something that is eating away at every one of us.

There will be a day when I no longer can hurt anyone else, intentionally or thoughtlessly - And that will be a good thing. Of course the cost is that this life will end.