I'm still trying to figure
Peter Rollins out. He and the postmodern Irish blend of churching intrigue me. In
this interview you can see with great clarity the wrestling of modern and postmodern paradigms. Some would picture this kind of grapple as a Michael and Satan and others would look at it as Jacob and the Angel...I imagine ones age, life, education, culture, nationality and theological tradition; would be a factor in which view you would take.
I'm not endorsing every idea or view of Peter's by sharing these links but as someone who has a deep love for Western Europe; I find the unfolding journey of faith and church in that region important and prophetic for the days ahead in the Pacific North West.
I'm still trying to figure Peter Rollins out. He and the postmodern Irish blend of churching intrigue me. In this interview you can see with great clarity the wrestling of modern and postmodern paradigms. Some would picture this kind of grapple as a Michael and Satan and others would look at it as Jacob and the Angel...I imagine ones age, life, education, culture, nationality and theological tradition; would be a factor in which view you would take.
I'm not endorsing every idea or view of Peter's by sharing these links but as someone who has a deep love for Western Europe; I find the unfolding journey of faith and church in that region important and prophetic for the days ahead in the Pacific North West.
7 comments:
You'd better be careful. If you stretch our brains any further, they might break.
I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves...
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. James 3:13-18
A discerning man keeps wisdom in view, but a fool's eyes wander to the ends of the earth. Proverbs 17:24
"To understand reality is not the same as to know about outward events. It is to perceive the essential nature of things. The best-informed man is not necessarily the wisest. Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential. But on the other hand, knowledge of an apparently trivial detail quite often makes it possible to see into the depth of things. And so the wise man will seek to acquire the best possible knowledge about events, but always without becoming dependent upon this knowledge. To recognize the significant in the factual is wisdom." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
*Cole
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose. Phil. 2:12-13
Also 2 Corinthians 10
*Cole (sorry just thought of some more verses and had to post them lol)
Connect these scriptures to the point you desire to make Cole, I'm not quite understanding the conclusion...are you holding the idea that good works speaks for wisdom in general...or that man made wisdom is going to undermine the simplicity of good works? Or am I missing the point completely?
Walk me through your thought a bit more...
lol that's what I had done originally and it made an obscenely long comment (and then I was worried that maybe i was too tired to be trying to make a comment in the first place) To sum up I think both:
that "works" (physical measurable actions, words, and thoughts) are the inherent result of Godly wisdom. You can test wisdom by it's fruits. Take James 3 for example he speaks about the "meekness of wisdom". Earthly wisdom is full of bitterness, envy, and self-seeking. Lol if you've studied alot of philosophy (and I have reason to believe that you have) you'll see very quickly how most of it is vaporous. It has no substance and no real worth other than to hear it's self talking. It's self-seeking and from bitterness and envy, isn't it?
"A discerning man keeps wisdom in view, but a fool's eyes wander to the ends of the earth." Proverbs 17:24 See how the fool isn't satisfied with true wisdom? He has to keep looking to satisfy his own ends. Sort of ties into the next quote:
"...Indeed there is a danger that precisely in the multiplicity of his knowledge he will lose sight of what is essential." If there aren't good works, good fruits coming from wisdom than what is the purpose of the revelation of wisdom given to man? I think 1 Corinthians 13 is actually very relevant here too. "...if I..can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge..but have not love, I am nothing..." you find the idea here again that wisdom isn't the end all >but< also Godly wisdom is very aware of that (being in the very scripture), that is why it is meek and humble and is not self seeking. Also I think this chapter does balance things out by saying that works are not in and of themselves meaningful, either. So somewhere in between our minds and our hands we are working out a dance of the heart and of the spirit. Constantly needing the Holy Spirit to guide us, constantly needing to hold ourselves and each other accountable thus the Phil. quote
"...continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." ...And with all that being said I think bringing up 2 Corinth. 10 makes a bit more sense...maybe?
*deep breathe* so all of this in response to Pete Rollins, mainly because I think that sums upthe good and the bad of what he was saying. He gets a little caught up trying to sound like a philosopher and with the semantics of everything (which is human so no hard feelings) but the ideas seemed to be coming from a sincere desire to find an answer to the ineffectiveness of the church and see change back to more biblical Christianity (at least that is what I sensed) There is a deep need for greater intimacy between Christians, how else can we help each other in this walk, to weigh each others actions, holding each other up and accountable? "accountability" and "judgement" become hollow and cruel without loving intimacy and relationship. It becomes harder to discern and weigh things when we never see each other. That is part of the problem. "you should listen to this, don't do that, rah rah rah.." but it's not asked for it's not out of love or intimacy as between brothers and sisters. You are obviously aware of this as well as alot of other leaders. I think there is a cunnundrum as to how to make this possible in our culture, your blog about it (Acts 2:44-47) is on to something don't let it go. um Romans 2:2 I suppose. It takes patience but look at our culture the prevelance of gangs and cults. The idea of a close community of christians is actually not so unusual or unheard of as the devil would have us believe. People are eager for intimacy, for purpose (the sort of crime and trouble there are a testimony to this don't you think?) it's no coincidence that the church is placed in the community it is , so keep it up! (1 John 4:4-6,17-19 Eric...) God is the one doing the real work coaxing peoples hearts like a starry eyed lover lol
anywaaaays I think I'm getting mildly sidetracked...
Jeers AND cheers to Peter at least he is working his salvation out, no matter what one thinks about the ideas. How many can say that?
*Cole (sorry if I stuck my foot in my mouth, I'm sure there are many more good things to be said on these subjects...)
gotcha...
but of course I was distracted by your use of the word: "conundrum" a word that I tried to say the other day and I butchered it...its a good word, it should be used more often.
...of course that has nothing to do with your thought...but dont take it as if I didint think or look up your scriptures and thoughts, I did...but good words are delectable.
lol I'm glad you appreciated it, my sister and I kept having it sneak itself into our convos a few weeks ago and with each use it gained comical momentum. indeed...
*Cole
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